Classroom: Relationships TWO 04-04-07
04-04-07 David from Luton, England
Relationships 2
The reality is that He created us simply because He loves us. And He invites us into this extraordinary relationship.
We weren’t created to do things. We were created to be in a relationship. Most people in the west measure success in terms of what we do. How much money we earn, how busy we are. The Holy Spirit through John, wrote a letter to the church in Revelation 3. “True you are so busy, far and away how your fame has spread. Nobody would guess that in fact, you’re dead.” It’s possible to be so busy that what we do is to close ourselves off from a relationship with God. But God does not want us to be like that. It’s really all about relationship.
Jesus said it like this, where your treasure is, there your heart is. Where you put your treasure is where you will value. Where you value will affect what you believe. If you have a belief system that says God is in control of everything – which is actually fatalistic – then you will have a very low value on choice because actually your choices don’t matter. If it’s God’s will that you are to die today by being hit by a 40 ton truck, then it doesn’t matter whether you stay in bed in your 4th floor apartment because if it’s God’s will that you die because you’re hit by a truck, then the truck will come up and kill you. But if it’s not God’s will that you get killed that way, then you can walk into the middle of the road and pick up a branch and the cars won’t hit you.
So your beliefs will affect your values and your values will affect your actions, or how you act. Instead of interpreting his actions through my values, I should have sought his values and interpreted his actions through his values. Because if I looked at it from his point of view, it wasn’t that he didn’t value me, it was that he valued me and he valued other relationships. Remember the story from yesterday about the two sons and the one was lost. We started by thinking that the son who left was a bad person. But when we understood his actions through his value system – we actually realized that he was okay.
I want to suggest that love is taking the time and effort to understand people’s actions through their value system rather than our own.
Philippians 2:1-11
So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
So it says here that Jesus is equal with God. That means that he is equal with God in terms of God’s attributes and characteristics. That means he is God, fully God. But he didn’t consider equality with God something to be wanted, squandered, or grasped. But he lowered himself and served man.
Was Adam capable of creating the universe? No. So Adam was created with God’s characteristics, not his attributes. So when Paul says in Philippians and says that Jesus emptied himself and made himself like man – what was it that he emptied himself of? The attributes. So when Paul describes Jesus, he describes Jesus as our last Adam. Adam had the character of God and not the attributes; Jesus had both the attributes and character but chose to set aside the attributes for our sake. He went from omnipotent God, to a weak baby. That’s a very dramatic laying aside of your power, isn’t it? We said that God is all knowing. How much does a baby know? We said that God can be anywhere at any time. For 9 months God constrained himself to a tiny little womb. Do you see how dramatic this is? For many years, God chose to not exercise His right as God.
Imagine that I have a real problem spending money. Every time I walk past a baker’s shop I go in and buy lots of cakes. I could solve that problem. As I’m about to leave my house, I could leave my wallet on the side and walk past the baker’s shop and look at the cakes; I’m tempted to go in and buy them, but I realized I left my money. So I can’t and I’m very sad. That doesn’t make me a better person. It wasn’t me choosing not to buy them, it was that I couldn’t buy them. Do you see? What would be better would be if I developed some character. So I still have the ability to buy them, but I come and I see them and I’m tempted, and I know that I could, but I choose to walk by. Do you see the difference? One has to do with not being able to. The other has to do with choosing not to. And what is relationship based on? Choice. So what does Jesus do here, he doesn’t leave his attributes in heaven.
Jesus came fully in character and fully in attributes but chose not to exercise the attributes.
God gave the Law, the Tem Commandments. Which bit of the model I gave you do the ten commandments affect the most. “You shall, you shall not, you shall not…” it’s all actions. But what Jesus talks about is changing the heart, or the values. Taking away temptation is a good biblical principle. So proverbs tells us that if you’re tempted to go with a prostitute, then don’t walk down the street. But a much better thing would be to change our beliefs and our values so that we weren’t tempted in the first place. What God is interested in is changing our belief system and our values so that our actions then change. Too often we’re simply worried about changing people’s actions.
At my home church we’ve been doing a lot of work with prostitutes. And wonderfully, lots of them are getting saved. But what happens when somebody becomes a believer? Which part changes? The beliefs (in the center). I didn’t believe in Jesus, now I do believe in Jesus. But when the church sees this, what do we expect to change? The actions! We expect people to stop swearing, stop smoking, to dress differently, to behave in particular ways and do all sorts of strange things. In other ways, we expect them to conform to a particular pattern. So when some of our friends who are prostitutes become believers, practically, they cannot change their way of life overnight. So what are we to do? Are we to expect them to suddenly change and behave differently? Or we going to challenge them to change their beliefs, which will change their values, which will lead to a permanent change in actions.
When somebody is addicted to drugs and you take those drugs away from them, you might solve the problem for a day or two. But as soon as they go out they’ll go right back to it. So it’s important to change from the inside out.
So it’s important to remove temptation where we can, and particularly if we’re in a position of authority it’s important to not put temptation in people’s way – but it’s most important to change from the inside out.
So God was willing to lay aside his attributes, his right, for our sake. Our attitude on what we think is right… is probably something we should be willing to lay aside. In our culture and society, we have become obsessed with our rights, and not with other people. So we need to transform our way of doing things into the Kingdom’s way of doing things.
Now we’re going to change gears and move on. Please be willing to go with me on this, I have no idea how well it’ll go.
If love is seeing things through other people’s beliefs and value systems, that means we need to understand more about each other. I’m going to ask you a series of questions, and I need you to just think of the first answer that comes into your head.
It’s been a long and tiring day. You get home and you have a choice. You can read a book or watch a video, that’s one choice, or you can go to a party with some of your best friends. If you would prefer normally to read the book or watch the video, I need you to get up and stand over here.
Introverts and extroverts
I’m going to say a word, and then I’m going to give you 30 seconds to write down as many words that come into your mind as a result of the word.
Extroverts tend to process thoughts by talking about them. So they can have something to say about everything, and as they talk they could discover more and make a decision after they’ve already been talking.
E (but I was in the Introvert group)
My words: Time, Clock, Precious, Useful, Short, Work, Not enough, Exist?, Dimension, Relative
There are two types of response, and you will need to decide which is your normal response. Jason’s were all in the limits of time: clock, watch… some of Chris’s were like that, but others were different – like “exist?” and “dimension”. So if your list is mostly to do with measurement, then move to one side of the room, and if your list has things that are to do with possibilities and not measurement, move to the other side of the room. If you’re confused, show me your list.
People in the measurement group are much more likely to process based on how they feel.
The other group would generally process theory or concept, and would generally be good with patterns. They tend not to be as detailed.
Now, if having heard that description you feel you would need to be in the other group, go ahead and move now.
N
So, you go outside and you notice that a couple of children, who are very young (maybe 6 or 7 years old) have been fighting. They’re not hurt. There’s no blood or broken bones. But they’re both crying and their friends are gathered around. What would be your first response? Would you normally try and find out what happened so you could decide what was an appropriate response? Or would you first put your arms around them to stop them from crying?
If you would find out what’s happening, go to one side of the room. If you would put your arms around them, go to the other side.
Do you process principally through a rational thinking, in a sort of analytical kind of way, or do you process these things through how you feel? So if somebody says to me, “How do you feel?” My normal response would be something like, “I think I feel okay.” Because I’m strongly on the analytical side. It’s not that I’m unfeeling, it’s that I have access to my feelings through my thinking. And the other way around is that you tend to make decisions based on how you would feel as a result of that decision. Or how others would feel as a result of your decision.
T
Okay last question.
You’re on a holiday. You’re very relaxed. You’re in a new place. It’s kind of warm and you’ve been walking – it’s a really nice place with lots of different shops and things to see, but you’re starting to get a bit thirsty. You see a really nice coffee shop with lots of different types of drinks. But just down the road it looks like it gets even nicer. What would you do? Do you go into the shop that is near you? Or do you think, “there might be a nicer one down the road.”
Where we process (internal or external), What we process (facts or theory), How we process (thinking or feeling), When we think the process is finished.
J
ENTJ
Jason ESFJ
Rob ESTJ
Sanne ENFP
Melissa ESTP
Chris ENTJ
****** ESTP
Ronza ESTP
Ellie INTJ
Adam ESTJ
Sana ISTJ
Mona ESFP
Claude XSTJ
David ENTJ
If you’re an ES, you process things in your external world, and what you process is detail. So what people will see and hear, the first thing that they’re going to come across in the beliefs, values, actions diagram – the first thing they’re going to come across about is fact, details, and realities.
For those of you who are EN, the first thing people will see is concepts, values, the big picture – these types of things.
It works slightly differently for introverts because you process things on the inside. So what people see is the third element: Either T (thinking) or F (feeling).
So the question is: Love is what? How can you act loving to one another? How did God express his love in the passage we read this morning? By humbling himself and putting others first. So we can do the same, can’t we? We can lay down our rights of being an ENTJ for a while, and we can look inside the other person and see what their preferences are and serve them. You need to understand that if you go with your preferences then you’ll be miscommunication because you’ll be talking about different things. So love in this situation is not about some warm and fuzzy feeling – it’s a very practical thing. It would be one person recognizing that they will need to communicate differently than what their preference might be.
For an introvert, love might be saying to yourself, “maybe I need to externalize the process rather than just giving the result.” Love is this detail. This is what love really is.
Love is not “us and them.” It’s not about our decisions and their decisions. Love is about OUR decisions. So unity is the key.
The whole key to creation is this Father-Son-HolySpirit circle. How many? Three. What does Jesus say about this number? One of the things in Ecclesiastes says, “a three cord strand is not easily broken.” And Jesus says where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them. What does this mean? Does this mean that where two or three are gathered – then he finally appears? It means that when two or three of us are making a decision under the council of God, and we all agree and the right decision is made – that decision is the decision of Christ.
What is the Greek word for church?
G1577
εκκλησία
ekklesia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
It simply means a gathering of people.
When a group of people are trying to kill Paul, the Greek word that is used is “εκκλησία”. It simply means “a group of people with a common purpose.” And what’s the smallest number that can have for a “group” of people? Two or three.
So when a group of people come gathered in Christ’s name, it’s not just a name for the group – it’s the person. Coming in the name of a person is coming together as that person.
God wants us to live in communities so we get angry at one another and then we have to stop pretending we’re nice – and we see who we really are, and we have to act in Christlike ways. Christ is manifest. He’s demonstrated in the world – not because he’s here in some mystical way… but it’s in practical ways.
There is a BIG difference between “unity” and “agreeing all the time.” What unity is, is unity of purpose. So we’re together on something. That means we’re going to represent God, and God is what? Love. The reality is that we will disagree about any number of things. That’s not a problem. Jesus disagreed with the Father in Gethsemane. He said, “not my will, you’re your will” because their wills were different at that time. Disagreement isn’t a problem. But the Kingdom is destroyed by disunity.
If all of us lay aside our rights – that gives God a chance to speak.
Do the letters J and P represent mental processing or can it be applied to events and things – like how long it takes to do a task verses being content with the task taking a long time?
There is a strong correlation between people who are very strong J’s and people who are very strong finishers.
I just want to take a look at the Christmas story, now. I want to see how different people made choices, and how those choices interwove with God’s plan. Chris talked about 2 Kings earlier. This is what I want you to do: Read 1 Chronicles and write comments about the different people. Here’s how it looks – they start off close to Solomon. Solomon ended up bad. He led the people astray. So people went further away from God. Then it says “this king died and a new king arose and he did more evil than his father.” So the people went further away from God. Then it says, “the old king died and a new king arose and they did more evil than his fathers.” So the people went further away from God. Then the old king died again and a new king came and he did good. So the people became a little closer to God. And the next king came and he was not good, so the people were taken farther from God. And the book goes on and on in this pattern.
So finally, you get the idea. When you finally reach the end, you expect it to say, “and then God sent a good king or a prophet.” But it doesn’t say that. It says, “and the people sinned until there was no remedy.” And at that point, ten out of the twelve tribes are lost forever. Generation after generation, God exercised grace. But eventually, Justice must be done. Time and again, God intervenes. Time and again, He gives us prophets. Time and again, He seeks to bring people back, but eventually there comes an end. In Hebrews, it says this, “In many and various ways, God spoke to us in the past through the prophets. But in these last days He has spoken to us through His son.” In terms of time, how long has it been between the Old Testament and the start of the new. Between the end of the Old Testament and the start of the New Testament (the coming of Christ), it has been 400 years. 400 years from when the prophets stopped coming and when Christ came. In Eden, what did God do with man? He spends time talking and interacting. All through the Old Testament He speaks through the prophets; but now after 400 years there has been silence. Into that story, we open Luke’s gospel and we read about a man called Zechariah. What was Zechariah? He was a priest. What’s the job of a priest? To teach, to listen to God and tell the people. So one of the jobs is to take the words of God and communicate them to the other people. He also takes the words of other people, and brings them to God. So for 400 years, God has said what? Nothing.
So this is an important job, and it’s a pointless job. What’s the good of having a job if it’s been 400 years and God hasn’t said anything? Zechariah is an older guy, probably in his 50’s – so he’s been doing this job for probably about 30 years. But it’s worse than that, because at this time there were too many priests, so they were split up into divisions. Sometimes your division wasn’t on duty. So not only is it a pointless job, but sometimes you don’t even get to do your pointless job. But it was worse than that, because even if was your turn to do the pointless job, sometimes you didn’t have anything to do. There were too many of them – so sometimes they would roll the dice to see who would do the work. So Zechariah is getting ready to go do his work, Elizabeth makes him lunch and says, “have a nice day.” And Zechariah says, “I won’t.” And this day is like any other day. After 30 years it’s all pretty much the same. It’s his divisions turn to do the pointless job. And they roll the dice, and Zechariah wins. Oh, joy! I get to do the pointless job! So he goes into the temple, and he’s starting to do the pointless rituals. And suddenly Gabriel stands next to him. After 400 years, God is about to speak again. Wow. What a privilege to be Zechariah. And Gabriel says to Zechariah, “don’t be afraid.” Now I don’t know much about angel school or what to do if you’re an angel, but I know that the first thing you should say is, “don’t be afraid.” I think only once in scripture is there a time when the angel does not say this. So Zechariah says, “you’re going to have a baby.” Now, how should Zechariah respond in this situation? Surprised maybe? Doubtful? And how does God expect he will react? Maybe fearful.
Zechariah has the opportunity to be a priest and do what priests are supposed to do. He has a choice. Will he act in belief or out of unbelief? Well, he acts out of unbelief. He says to Gabriel, “how is this going to happen? My wife is to old, I’m to old…” and I love Gabriel’s response. He says, “I stand in the very presence of God. How dare you doubt me? Because of your unbelief, you will be silenced until this prophesy comes true.” Do you see what happened? He was supposed to speak the words of God. He had the privilege of being the first priest to speak God’s word in 400 years, but because of his unbelief, he misses out on the blessing. God’s plan isn’t threatened, but Zechariah misses out on the joy. So he goes home and Elizabeth becomes pregnant.
Six months later, Gabriel has to visit Mary. This time it’s not an important priest. It’s not somebody living in an important town. He’s going to visit a girl in a place where nobody wanted to go. Mary would be 13 or 14. What do you think Gabriel thinks? I wonder. First he went to a priest, then he went to a girl in some backwater town.
So a 14 year old girl is about to be married, she’s betrothed to Joseph. These two are legally married, they are contracted to be married. There hadn’t been a ceremony yet, but legally they were married. Now Gabriel comes, and what’s in Mary’s mind before he comes? Probably Joseph. Probably the wedding. Had they ever met, yet? We don’t know. Will he be kind? Will he be loving? There are probably all sorts of things in her mind. And into that comes Gabriel. Gabriel says—well what’s the first thing you learn in angel school? Say “don’t be afraid.” And this man who was a priest who is supposed to expect the supernatural… and what does he say to this little girl? “Hail oh favored one of God.” Now that’s interesting! Gabriel realizes that Mary actually isn’t afraid! That’s extraordinary, isn’t it? There’s something about this woman’s faith, there’s something about this woman that is very different. And Gabriel goes on and explains what God wants to do. Is it a trivial thing that’s being asked? If God says, “I want you to bear my child.” What will she have to do? Tell Joseph. Now Joseph doesn’t know much, but he knows one thing for sure – the baby isn’t his. Now is he going to believe that it’s angels and the Holy Spirit? And what’s the risk to Mary? She’s unmarried, she’s not a virgin, and she’s contracted to be married. The law says she should be stoned. What do you think? That’s a tough decision, right? Now, question, does Mary have a choice here? Yes. She is given a choice! Mary knows, and she responds, “let it be to me as you have said.” Now Zechariah missed out on one blessing. Mary chose not to miss out on the blessing. And she said, “how is this going to happen? I’m not married. Is this going to happen after I’m married? What’s the deal?” But it’s not a question that comes from unbelief, it’s a question that comes from belief.
Now, how can Mary prove what the angel said? She can go to Elizabeth; and if it’s true then Elizabeth would be six months pregnant.
What was the point of us being created again? Because of the love of God, to be in eternal unity.
So we have Elizabeth and she’s pregnant with John the Baptist. And what do we know about John the Baptist? That he was filled with the Holy Spirit from conception. Now Mary is coming to Elizabeth and who is Mary pregnant with? Jesus, the Son of God. For all eternity, God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one, inseparable. But now, somehow geographically that has changed. And what happens when Mary comes into the house? The Holy Spirit leaps! And Mary sees that Elizabeth is pregnant and knows it’s all true. She stays for 3 months. Then she leaves. Why doesn’t she stay to help Elizabeth? Because she needs to get back and tell Joseph before it’s blatantly obvious. So she goes back, and now she has to tell Joseph. How does that conversation go, do you think? Probably not so well. What are Joseph’s choices here? To believe Mary, or not to believe Mary and reject her. If he rejects her, the consequences fall on Mary and she’ll be killed. If he accepts her, the blame might be on him or both. “What’s the deal? Why haven’t you killed her?” or “Is the baby yours and you’re not willing to admit it?” Or he can marry her. And if he marries her, what will people think about who the father is? They will think it’s him, he will get the blame, and both of them will be rejected. First, Joseph chooses divorce – but a quiet divorce. So what happened here? Love or justice? Justice. Because it says, “being a just man…” But what does God want us to do? Love.
Relationships 2
The reality is that He created us simply because He loves us. And He invites us into this extraordinary relationship.
We weren’t created to do things. We were created to be in a relationship. Most people in the west measure success in terms of what we do. How much money we earn, how busy we are. The Holy Spirit through John, wrote a letter to the church in Revelation 3. “True you are so busy, far and away how your fame has spread. Nobody would guess that in fact, you’re dead.” It’s possible to be so busy that what we do is to close ourselves off from a relationship with God. But God does not want us to be like that. It’s really all about relationship.
Jesus said it like this, where your treasure is, there your heart is. Where you put your treasure is where you will value. Where you value will affect what you believe. If you have a belief system that says God is in control of everything – which is actually fatalistic – then you will have a very low value on choice because actually your choices don’t matter. If it’s God’s will that you are to die today by being hit by a 40 ton truck, then it doesn’t matter whether you stay in bed in your 4th floor apartment because if it’s God’s will that you die because you’re hit by a truck, then the truck will come up and kill you. But if it’s not God’s will that you get killed that way, then you can walk into the middle of the road and pick up a branch and the cars won’t hit you.
So your beliefs will affect your values and your values will affect your actions, or how you act. Instead of interpreting his actions through my values, I should have sought his values and interpreted his actions through his values. Because if I looked at it from his point of view, it wasn’t that he didn’t value me, it was that he valued me and he valued other relationships. Remember the story from yesterday about the two sons and the one was lost. We started by thinking that the son who left was a bad person. But when we understood his actions through his value system – we actually realized that he was okay.
I want to suggest that love is taking the time and effort to understand people’s actions through their value system rather than our own.
Philippians 2:1-11
So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
So it says here that Jesus is equal with God. That means that he is equal with God in terms of God’s attributes and characteristics. That means he is God, fully God. But he didn’t consider equality with God something to be wanted, squandered, or grasped. But he lowered himself and served man.
Was Adam capable of creating the universe? No. So Adam was created with God’s characteristics, not his attributes. So when Paul says in Philippians and says that Jesus emptied himself and made himself like man – what was it that he emptied himself of? The attributes. So when Paul describes Jesus, he describes Jesus as our last Adam. Adam had the character of God and not the attributes; Jesus had both the attributes and character but chose to set aside the attributes for our sake. He went from omnipotent God, to a weak baby. That’s a very dramatic laying aside of your power, isn’t it? We said that God is all knowing. How much does a baby know? We said that God can be anywhere at any time. For 9 months God constrained himself to a tiny little womb. Do you see how dramatic this is? For many years, God chose to not exercise His right as God.
Imagine that I have a real problem spending money. Every time I walk past a baker’s shop I go in and buy lots of cakes. I could solve that problem. As I’m about to leave my house, I could leave my wallet on the side and walk past the baker’s shop and look at the cakes; I’m tempted to go in and buy them, but I realized I left my money. So I can’t and I’m very sad. That doesn’t make me a better person. It wasn’t me choosing not to buy them, it was that I couldn’t buy them. Do you see? What would be better would be if I developed some character. So I still have the ability to buy them, but I come and I see them and I’m tempted, and I know that I could, but I choose to walk by. Do you see the difference? One has to do with not being able to. The other has to do with choosing not to. And what is relationship based on? Choice. So what does Jesus do here, he doesn’t leave his attributes in heaven.
Jesus came fully in character and fully in attributes but chose not to exercise the attributes.
God gave the Law, the Tem Commandments. Which bit of the model I gave you do the ten commandments affect the most. “You shall, you shall not, you shall not…” it’s all actions. But what Jesus talks about is changing the heart, or the values. Taking away temptation is a good biblical principle. So proverbs tells us that if you’re tempted to go with a prostitute, then don’t walk down the street. But a much better thing would be to change our beliefs and our values so that we weren’t tempted in the first place. What God is interested in is changing our belief system and our values so that our actions then change. Too often we’re simply worried about changing people’s actions.
At my home church we’ve been doing a lot of work with prostitutes. And wonderfully, lots of them are getting saved. But what happens when somebody becomes a believer? Which part changes? The beliefs (in the center). I didn’t believe in Jesus, now I do believe in Jesus. But when the church sees this, what do we expect to change? The actions! We expect people to stop swearing, stop smoking, to dress differently, to behave in particular ways and do all sorts of strange things. In other ways, we expect them to conform to a particular pattern. So when some of our friends who are prostitutes become believers, practically, they cannot change their way of life overnight. So what are we to do? Are we to expect them to suddenly change and behave differently? Or we going to challenge them to change their beliefs, which will change their values, which will lead to a permanent change in actions.
When somebody is addicted to drugs and you take those drugs away from them, you might solve the problem for a day or two. But as soon as they go out they’ll go right back to it. So it’s important to change from the inside out.
So it’s important to remove temptation where we can, and particularly if we’re in a position of authority it’s important to not put temptation in people’s way – but it’s most important to change from the inside out.
So God was willing to lay aside his attributes, his right, for our sake. Our attitude on what we think is right… is probably something we should be willing to lay aside. In our culture and society, we have become obsessed with our rights, and not with other people. So we need to transform our way of doing things into the Kingdom’s way of doing things.
Now we’re going to change gears and move on. Please be willing to go with me on this, I have no idea how well it’ll go.
If love is seeing things through other people’s beliefs and value systems, that means we need to understand more about each other. I’m going to ask you a series of questions, and I need you to just think of the first answer that comes into your head.
It’s been a long and tiring day. You get home and you have a choice. You can read a book or watch a video, that’s one choice, or you can go to a party with some of your best friends. If you would prefer normally to read the book or watch the video, I need you to get up and stand over here.
Introverts and extroverts
I’m going to say a word, and then I’m going to give you 30 seconds to write down as many words that come into your mind as a result of the word.
Extroverts tend to process thoughts by talking about them. So they can have something to say about everything, and as they talk they could discover more and make a decision after they’ve already been talking.
E (but I was in the Introvert group)
My words: Time, Clock, Precious, Useful, Short, Work, Not enough, Exist?, Dimension, Relative
There are two types of response, and you will need to decide which is your normal response. Jason’s were all in the limits of time: clock, watch… some of Chris’s were like that, but others were different – like “exist?” and “dimension”. So if your list is mostly to do with measurement, then move to one side of the room, and if your list has things that are to do with possibilities and not measurement, move to the other side of the room. If you’re confused, show me your list.
People in the measurement group are much more likely to process based on how they feel.
The other group would generally process theory or concept, and would generally be good with patterns. They tend not to be as detailed.
Now, if having heard that description you feel you would need to be in the other group, go ahead and move now.
N
So, you go outside and you notice that a couple of children, who are very young (maybe 6 or 7 years old) have been fighting. They’re not hurt. There’s no blood or broken bones. But they’re both crying and their friends are gathered around. What would be your first response? Would you normally try and find out what happened so you could decide what was an appropriate response? Or would you first put your arms around them to stop them from crying?
If you would find out what’s happening, go to one side of the room. If you would put your arms around them, go to the other side.
Do you process principally through a rational thinking, in a sort of analytical kind of way, or do you process these things through how you feel? So if somebody says to me, “How do you feel?” My normal response would be something like, “I think I feel okay.” Because I’m strongly on the analytical side. It’s not that I’m unfeeling, it’s that I have access to my feelings through my thinking. And the other way around is that you tend to make decisions based on how you would feel as a result of that decision. Or how others would feel as a result of your decision.
T
Okay last question.
You’re on a holiday. You’re very relaxed. You’re in a new place. It’s kind of warm and you’ve been walking – it’s a really nice place with lots of different shops and things to see, but you’re starting to get a bit thirsty. You see a really nice coffee shop with lots of different types of drinks. But just down the road it looks like it gets even nicer. What would you do? Do you go into the shop that is near you? Or do you think, “there might be a nicer one down the road.”
Where we process (internal or external), What we process (facts or theory), How we process (thinking or feeling), When we think the process is finished.
J
ENTJ
Jason ESFJ
Rob ESTJ
Sanne ENFP
Melissa ESTP
Chris ENTJ
****** ESTP
Ronza ESTP
Ellie INTJ
Adam ESTJ
Sana ISTJ
Mona ESFP
Claude XSTJ
David ENTJ
If you’re an ES, you process things in your external world, and what you process is detail. So what people will see and hear, the first thing that they’re going to come across in the beliefs, values, actions diagram – the first thing they’re going to come across about is fact, details, and realities.
For those of you who are EN, the first thing people will see is concepts, values, the big picture – these types of things.
It works slightly differently for introverts because you process things on the inside. So what people see is the third element: Either T (thinking) or F (feeling).
So the question is: Love is what? How can you act loving to one another? How did God express his love in the passage we read this morning? By humbling himself and putting others first. So we can do the same, can’t we? We can lay down our rights of being an ENTJ for a while, and we can look inside the other person and see what their preferences are and serve them. You need to understand that if you go with your preferences then you’ll be miscommunication because you’ll be talking about different things. So love in this situation is not about some warm and fuzzy feeling – it’s a very practical thing. It would be one person recognizing that they will need to communicate differently than what their preference might be.
For an introvert, love might be saying to yourself, “maybe I need to externalize the process rather than just giving the result.” Love is this detail. This is what love really is.
Love is not “us and them.” It’s not about our decisions and their decisions. Love is about OUR decisions. So unity is the key.
The whole key to creation is this Father-Son-HolySpirit circle. How many? Three. What does Jesus say about this number? One of the things in Ecclesiastes says, “a three cord strand is not easily broken.” And Jesus says where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them. What does this mean? Does this mean that where two or three are gathered – then he finally appears? It means that when two or three of us are making a decision under the council of God, and we all agree and the right decision is made – that decision is the decision of Christ.
What is the Greek word for church?
G1577
εκκλησία
ekklesia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
It simply means a gathering of people.
When a group of people are trying to kill Paul, the Greek word that is used is “εκκλησία”. It simply means “a group of people with a common purpose.” And what’s the smallest number that can have for a “group” of people? Two or three.
So when a group of people come gathered in Christ’s name, it’s not just a name for the group – it’s the person. Coming in the name of a person is coming together as that person.
God wants us to live in communities so we get angry at one another and then we have to stop pretending we’re nice – and we see who we really are, and we have to act in Christlike ways. Christ is manifest. He’s demonstrated in the world – not because he’s here in some mystical way… but it’s in practical ways.
There is a BIG difference between “unity” and “agreeing all the time.” What unity is, is unity of purpose. So we’re together on something. That means we’re going to represent God, and God is what? Love. The reality is that we will disagree about any number of things. That’s not a problem. Jesus disagreed with the Father in Gethsemane. He said, “not my will, you’re your will” because their wills were different at that time. Disagreement isn’t a problem. But the Kingdom is destroyed by disunity.
If all of us lay aside our rights – that gives God a chance to speak.
Do the letters J and P represent mental processing or can it be applied to events and things – like how long it takes to do a task verses being content with the task taking a long time?
There is a strong correlation between people who are very strong J’s and people who are very strong finishers.
I just want to take a look at the Christmas story, now. I want to see how different people made choices, and how those choices interwove with God’s plan. Chris talked about 2 Kings earlier. This is what I want you to do: Read 1 Chronicles and write comments about the different people. Here’s how it looks – they start off close to Solomon. Solomon ended up bad. He led the people astray. So people went further away from God. Then it says “this king died and a new king arose and he did more evil than his father.” So the people went further away from God. Then it says, “the old king died and a new king arose and they did more evil than his fathers.” So the people went further away from God. Then the old king died again and a new king came and he did good. So the people became a little closer to God. And the next king came and he was not good, so the people were taken farther from God. And the book goes on and on in this pattern.
So finally, you get the idea. When you finally reach the end, you expect it to say, “and then God sent a good king or a prophet.” But it doesn’t say that. It says, “and the people sinned until there was no remedy.” And at that point, ten out of the twelve tribes are lost forever. Generation after generation, God exercised grace. But eventually, Justice must be done. Time and again, God intervenes. Time and again, He gives us prophets. Time and again, He seeks to bring people back, but eventually there comes an end. In Hebrews, it says this, “In many and various ways, God spoke to us in the past through the prophets. But in these last days He has spoken to us through His son.” In terms of time, how long has it been between the Old Testament and the start of the new. Between the end of the Old Testament and the start of the New Testament (the coming of Christ), it has been 400 years. 400 years from when the prophets stopped coming and when Christ came. In Eden, what did God do with man? He spends time talking and interacting. All through the Old Testament He speaks through the prophets; but now after 400 years there has been silence. Into that story, we open Luke’s gospel and we read about a man called Zechariah. What was Zechariah? He was a priest. What’s the job of a priest? To teach, to listen to God and tell the people. So one of the jobs is to take the words of God and communicate them to the other people. He also takes the words of other people, and brings them to God. So for 400 years, God has said what? Nothing.
So this is an important job, and it’s a pointless job. What’s the good of having a job if it’s been 400 years and God hasn’t said anything? Zechariah is an older guy, probably in his 50’s – so he’s been doing this job for probably about 30 years. But it’s worse than that, because at this time there were too many priests, so they were split up into divisions. Sometimes your division wasn’t on duty. So not only is it a pointless job, but sometimes you don’t even get to do your pointless job. But it was worse than that, because even if was your turn to do the pointless job, sometimes you didn’t have anything to do. There were too many of them – so sometimes they would roll the dice to see who would do the work. So Zechariah is getting ready to go do his work, Elizabeth makes him lunch and says, “have a nice day.” And Zechariah says, “I won’t.” And this day is like any other day. After 30 years it’s all pretty much the same. It’s his divisions turn to do the pointless job. And they roll the dice, and Zechariah wins. Oh, joy! I get to do the pointless job! So he goes into the temple, and he’s starting to do the pointless rituals. And suddenly Gabriel stands next to him. After 400 years, God is about to speak again. Wow. What a privilege to be Zechariah. And Gabriel says to Zechariah, “don’t be afraid.” Now I don’t know much about angel school or what to do if you’re an angel, but I know that the first thing you should say is, “don’t be afraid.” I think only once in scripture is there a time when the angel does not say this. So Zechariah says, “you’re going to have a baby.” Now, how should Zechariah respond in this situation? Surprised maybe? Doubtful? And how does God expect he will react? Maybe fearful.
Zechariah has the opportunity to be a priest and do what priests are supposed to do. He has a choice. Will he act in belief or out of unbelief? Well, he acts out of unbelief. He says to Gabriel, “how is this going to happen? My wife is to old, I’m to old…” and I love Gabriel’s response. He says, “I stand in the very presence of God. How dare you doubt me? Because of your unbelief, you will be silenced until this prophesy comes true.” Do you see what happened? He was supposed to speak the words of God. He had the privilege of being the first priest to speak God’s word in 400 years, but because of his unbelief, he misses out on the blessing. God’s plan isn’t threatened, but Zechariah misses out on the joy. So he goes home and Elizabeth becomes pregnant.
Six months later, Gabriel has to visit Mary. This time it’s not an important priest. It’s not somebody living in an important town. He’s going to visit a girl in a place where nobody wanted to go. Mary would be 13 or 14. What do you think Gabriel thinks? I wonder. First he went to a priest, then he went to a girl in some backwater town.
So a 14 year old girl is about to be married, she’s betrothed to Joseph. These two are legally married, they are contracted to be married. There hadn’t been a ceremony yet, but legally they were married. Now Gabriel comes, and what’s in Mary’s mind before he comes? Probably Joseph. Probably the wedding. Had they ever met, yet? We don’t know. Will he be kind? Will he be loving? There are probably all sorts of things in her mind. And into that comes Gabriel. Gabriel says—well what’s the first thing you learn in angel school? Say “don’t be afraid.” And this man who was a priest who is supposed to expect the supernatural… and what does he say to this little girl? “Hail oh favored one of God.” Now that’s interesting! Gabriel realizes that Mary actually isn’t afraid! That’s extraordinary, isn’t it? There’s something about this woman’s faith, there’s something about this woman that is very different. And Gabriel goes on and explains what God wants to do. Is it a trivial thing that’s being asked? If God says, “I want you to bear my child.” What will she have to do? Tell Joseph. Now Joseph doesn’t know much, but he knows one thing for sure – the baby isn’t his. Now is he going to believe that it’s angels and the Holy Spirit? And what’s the risk to Mary? She’s unmarried, she’s not a virgin, and she’s contracted to be married. The law says she should be stoned. What do you think? That’s a tough decision, right? Now, question, does Mary have a choice here? Yes. She is given a choice! Mary knows, and she responds, “let it be to me as you have said.” Now Zechariah missed out on one blessing. Mary chose not to miss out on the blessing. And she said, “how is this going to happen? I’m not married. Is this going to happen after I’m married? What’s the deal?” But it’s not a question that comes from unbelief, it’s a question that comes from belief.
Now, how can Mary prove what the angel said? She can go to Elizabeth; and if it’s true then Elizabeth would be six months pregnant.
What was the point of us being created again? Because of the love of God, to be in eternal unity.
So we have Elizabeth and she’s pregnant with John the Baptist. And what do we know about John the Baptist? That he was filled with the Holy Spirit from conception. Now Mary is coming to Elizabeth and who is Mary pregnant with? Jesus, the Son of God. For all eternity, God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one, inseparable. But now, somehow geographically that has changed. And what happens when Mary comes into the house? The Holy Spirit leaps! And Mary sees that Elizabeth is pregnant and knows it’s all true. She stays for 3 months. Then she leaves. Why doesn’t she stay to help Elizabeth? Because she needs to get back and tell Joseph before it’s blatantly obvious. So she goes back, and now she has to tell Joseph. How does that conversation go, do you think? Probably not so well. What are Joseph’s choices here? To believe Mary, or not to believe Mary and reject her. If he rejects her, the consequences fall on Mary and she’ll be killed. If he accepts her, the blame might be on him or both. “What’s the deal? Why haven’t you killed her?” or “Is the baby yours and you’re not willing to admit it?” Or he can marry her. And if he marries her, what will people think about who the father is? They will think it’s him, he will get the blame, and both of them will be rejected. First, Joseph chooses divorce – but a quiet divorce. So what happened here? Love or justice? Justice. Because it says, “being a just man…” But what does God want us to do? Love.
posted by CarbonChris at 9:11 AM
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